Chapter 5: What Is Natural?

ignorance call miracles are doubtless the results of application of higher laws or forces of nature not yet learned by men, and miracles are to be viewed not as a happenings contrary "to the established constitution and course of things," under a universal reign of law, but as part of the not-yet-understood application of law to things and conditions that seem to produce effects that are in derogation of the ordinary course of the natural--B.H. Roberts

The scientist uses the word "natural" in a somewhat more restricted sense. To him, it means according to nature or according to the laws of nature; and by nature, in that connection, he means all of the materials and forces of the physical world and their interactions on one another.-- Dr. Sterling Talmage

What is the ultimate sources of the power behind laws of nature? I think that if we could trace nature clear back past the creation of the earth we could know why everything happens, even supernatural things.

Chapter 4: What Is Creation?

And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell… and then the Lard said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth. And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate, because they had not formed anything but he earth—Abr. 3:24; 4:1-2

The standard Dictionary gives two definitions for the verb “create”

1. To cause to come into existence; especially, to produce out of nothing

2. To produce as a new construction out of existing materials.

The first definition is simply a statement of the medieval error, which still keeps its place in our language. Such a notion has never been any part of Mormonism. The second definition represents the only idea that can be accepted by one who recognizes God as the author of nature.

Our God does not make things come about by a so called “poof”. The creation did not go like this “Thus there was light and POOF there was light on the earth.”

In this chapter Dr. Talmage gives a rather good story

I was privileged recently to talk with a Protestant minister who related an experience of his student days. During one of his vacations, he was traveling in the West and visited with a relative who was doing missionary work among the Indians. The visitor was invited to preach to the supposedly Christianized Indians, and considering them to be simple children of nature, he chose as his text the biblical account of the creation, laying considerable stress on the six days.

After the meeting had closed, he heard one Indian who had come late inquire of one of the tribal chiefs: “who was the pale-face who spoke to us?” And the chief shook his head in rather a puzzled fashion and replied: “He is the man who worships God-in-a-hurry.” At the conclusion of his story, the minister asked us : “can you imagine that Redskin being so stupid as to get no more than that out of my sermon?”

Stupid! I wonder? Neither the simple (but not stupid) Indian with his concept of the agelessness of the works of the Great Spirit nor the scientist who with Huxley can discern “no vestige of a be-in-a-hurry” as a basis for an enduring faith. If creation means organization out of existing materials, then the creative power was manifested, not only in the remote biblical days before the advent of man but throughout all of the past, up to and including and here and now.

Chapter 3: What Is Faith-Promoting?

Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true... But behold, as the seed swellith, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grou, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now. behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yeah, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow--Alma 32:21,30

This scripture basically answered my question about what can be faith-promoting. Here is a small story about Dr. Talmage when he was a young boy.

As a small boy I was the proud possessor of a gift book on the animal kingdom; I was inter-noisy iconoclast-- a disciple of Ingersoll whose name I have forgotten-- gained considerable notoriety and newspaper space by attempting to discredit the Bible by discrediting the story of Jonah and the whale. His principal argument was that the whale is known to have a very narrow throat only a few inches across, and so that it would be physically impossible for a whale to swallow a man. An equally noisy ecclesiastic took issue with him, and in several newspaper columns of perfervid diatribe damned the iconoclast for being a faith-destroyer and maintained that "all things were possible with God," even to the passing of a six foot man through a two inch tube and back; he insisted that a firm belief in the miracles, and particularly this miracle. was essential to a proper appreciation of the Bible and exhorted his readers to "hold to the faith."

He wrote in a very convincing style, but his ideas did not seem to make sense. I tok the problem to my father. He said simply: "read your Bible and tell me what you find."

So I went back to the original account and read: "Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah" (Jonah 1:17). But my favorite gift book had informed me that a whale was not a great fish but a warm-blooded mammal. So, it was obvious that the dimensions of a whale's throat had nothing to do with the case!

"The night after I read this I had a very vivid dream about a shark" John Gillis

Brother Talmage gives two tips on faith destroying and faith promoting

1. Anything that presents the acceptance of any truth must be classed as faith-destroying
2. Anything that contributes to the understanding, or facilitates a keener appreciation, of any truth must be included under the term "faith-promoting"

Chapter 2: What Is Science?

I often say that if you can measure that of which you speak, and can express it by a number, you know something of your subject; but if you cannot measure it, your knowledge is meager and unsatisfactory--

Lord Kelvin

"Science is an understanding of the quantitative relationships of nature" Dr. Sterling Talmage

These quotes describe science perfectly. Science is everywhere and has many different faces, but they always come back to these definitions.

Science problems can always stated with precision. For example, how long is a meter? How hot is a flame? How fast does sound travel? How is our main word here.

Scienntific questions, whether framed as specific hypotheses or not, are aimed merely at finding out the facts; as such, they cannot properly be either faith-promoting or faith-destroying, and only in relatively rare instances do they have any bearing on the matters properly covered by faith.

Science can be intimidating and most other religions see it has a faith-demoting matter. Contrary to that belief science can be faith-promoting.

Chapter 1: Are We Afraid To Think

Surely I would speak to the Almighty, and desire to reason with God--Job 13:3

Are we afraid to ask questions that we do not have an answer to? If we ask the question will it begin to destroy our faith in Christ and in the LDS church? We must search for the things that have truth, we must reason with God to find the truth. So it is faith-promoting and not faith-demoting

"Scientific truth cannot be theological lie. To the sane mind, theology and philosophy must harmonize. They have the common ground of truth on which to meet."

John A. Widtsoe, joseph smith as scientisti (SLC:bookcraft, 1964), 156; originally published in 1908

Two things to remember when considering science

Dr. Sterling B Talmage "It is my experience that we need to work carefully to avoid two types of traps in thinking about controversial issues like this one: (1) avoid jumping to conclusions or seizing upon simple answers; and (2) avoid following the path of those of other faiths without considering carefully how our doctrine differs from theirs.

John A. Widtsoe: "Scientific truth cannot be theological lie. To the sane mind, theology and philosophy must harmonize. They have the common ground of truth on which to meet." John A. Widtsoe, Joseph smith as ascientist (salt Lake city: bookcraft, 1964), 156; originally published in 1908